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Geneva stripes




Can somebody please advise what kind of cutting/abrasive tools are used for that finish and the machining parameters (feed & speed)?
I'm not going to reinvent the wheel and I have a very plain movement I'm trying to finish.
Thanks for your help.
Dan
sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat

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Movement finishing is a recurrent, but not satisfactorily understood subject on this forum. I think the best info we have up 'til now is from this site:
http://www.watches-lexic.ch/pages/eng/tec/exp13.htm
There is a short bit about côtes in there somewhere.
There is also a very short sequence in the German language report about Lange that Paul K just posted that shows perlage and côtes de Genève being done.
http://forums.here.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=1679564&rid=8672
But that is about the best we have. If you find more info please let us know. My attempts at perlage have not been really convincing up 'til now. I have not found the right abrasive yet. On the other hand bevelling is simpler than I expected. You just need a steady hand and a good eye to keep things parallel.
Good luck and let us see examples of your successes and show us how you did it!
Don
Fortune can, for her pleasure, fools advance,
And toss them on the wheels of Chance.
Juvenal Fortunes pleasure and watchmaking
My Watches

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... what abrasives have you tried that haven't worked? Someday I'd like to try that, be interesting to know what doesn't work.
- Larry Loesch
"The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents." - Nathaniel Borenstein

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I would have thought, as thin as plating is, that it would be better to apply the stripes, damascene, perlage, etc before plating. Is that how it's typically done?

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...otherwise the finish/decoration would remove the plating.
ed
"And the counselors got to hook up with other counselors from other schools. It was a special time for everyone." -- John Carey
"In the trunk when you buy a Camaro you get two floormats, a mullet wig, and a can of Skoal. The radio is preset to only play REO Speedwagon, Def Leppard, and .38 Special. The car encourages you to drive like a hoodlum." -- Eric Edelman
"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got an even swing"
HeinousBokeh
twitter: ehahnus

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I haven't tried anything yet. I believe they are either end milled, ground or less likely brushed. Like I sais I don't reinvent the will and wish to know what people that do it for a living do; the proper way.
sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat

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If you don't mind sharing your technique, of course? Thanks much!


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Diamond powder, 10 and 1 microns.
sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat

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In Germany master watchmaker Lottermann does seminars on movement finishing.
Pupils get to work on Molnija 3603 movements; the Geneva stripes are applied as follows:
first the bridges are ground flat on a glassplate and diamantine
then the geneva stripes are applied using a small mill with a specially prepared grinder (no idea what material they use)
lastly the bridges are gold-plated.
Impressions on the finished result can be seen here:
http://www.lottermannundsoehne.de/uhrenseminar.htm
A report on the seminar (sorry again only in German!)
http://www.thiworld.de/_zeitgeist/finissierung/bericht/
Paul


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and there are no secrets. For beveling I use my favorite fine flat file, followed by an Arkansas stone slip and rouge on the end of a pegwood. With that the bevel polishes up OK and looks pretty good I think. The problem is making the width of the bevel constant so that the two edges are always parallel. I just bought one of those tiny Degusit ruby files which I will try instead of the Arkansas stone the next time around. I am still practicing before I do anything on the movement itself.
Don
Fortune can, for her pleasure, fools advance,
And toss them on the wheels of Chance.
Juvenal Fortunes pleasure and watchmaking
My Watches

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I have tried the abrasives in rubber type things as they sell for flexible spindels, both fine and course. I see no big difference between the two and they are both too fine, more for preparing for polishing than leaving a pattern on the metal.
After that I tried using a birch dowel turned down to 2mm with a thin layer of grinding compound smeared over the piece. 320 grit is too fine, 120 grit too course. I think that 240 grit will be the good solution, but won't claim it for sure until I try it.
I have also discovered that the pattern appears much better with a slow turning tool. My Proxxon (~Dremel) turns much too fast even at its slowest speed. I am now using my drill press at its slowest speed, about 500rpm.
I think that I am going to have to look into one of those finishing seminars at Lottermann to find out how to do it "right".
Don
Fortune can, for her pleasure, fools advance,
And toss them on the wheels of Chance.
Juvenal Fortunes pleasure and watchmaking
My Watches

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Here is a link to the BHI "hints" page on this.
Best wishes,
Bob
www.bhi.co.uk/hints/spotting.htm

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Hi Don,
I have the same type of drill press you do, old wobbly by Proxon. I slowed it down to drill glass by buying a rheostat to adjust the speed from my local hobby shop. It turned out to work really well.
SWE


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A friend in the Swiss watch industry a few years ago sent me some photos to answer my question about this process. I've been searching for them and can't find them.
My memory of them is this: the finish was put on using a shaped wooden plug and some sort of grinding compound. I seem to recall that the shaped wooden plug (in a hemisphere the width of the stripes) was either beech or birch.
It was being done in a drill press, and the craftsman was holding the piece in his hand (!) When I asked my friend why he said that it was in fact hard to get the lines stright at frist, but once you had the knack, this was the fastest way to do it.
Hope this isn't the result of my faulty memory.

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I have had some mixed success with geneva waves using a dremel in a press attachment. The biggest problem for me is tool accuracy (the up-down is not PERFECTLY vertical) and inaccurate sanding of the plates. made a bit myself out of wood, about half an inch dia. Once it was in the dremel, I sanded it flat and round (it was a bit wobbly at first) progressing up to 1500 grit paper. Using a slide vice, I pulled the plates underneath the dremel, using dremel polishing paste (a generic tool store item) mixed with vaseline for an abrasive (I have no machine oil, and this seemed to work fine). The vaseline make for a very slick surface on the bit, and resulted in a very nice wave texture. It took me a while to get smooth enough to get the stripes to look nice, but they are still somewhat crooked at the edges and around jewel holes, even in the slide. I am guessing because I did not sand the plate perfectly flat to start with, making the edges slightly curved downward. I am thinking of getting something to lower the speed of the dremel, as I dont have room for a full drill press, and building a hand sander that will perfect the flat finish
I am also going to try to glue rubber sheeting on to the wood in the hopes that that will help compensate for any positional errors in the up-down accuracy of the tool, this has worked very well for making fantastic perlage, another method where tool accuracy was a problem.
I will post photos sometime once I get them on a website.